Johnny Carson is one of the best modern late-night talk show hosts, and it seemed like anybody who was anybody wound up on The Tonight Show during his tenure. Still to this day, Carson is still talked about, with Jimmy Kimmel revealing what he learned about late-night following Carson’s final show, and it’s that he would never be anywhere near as good as Carson. However, during Carson’s time on The Tonight Show, he allegedly banned a handful of huge celebrities, such as Jay Leno, Ellen DeGeneres, Dana Carvey, and even William Shatner.
Recently, Mark Malkoff wrote a book with David Ritz about Carson’s life and career titled Love Johnny Carson. It features interviews with those who knew him best and gives a look at him both during and after his time on The Tonight Show. Allegedly, Carson’s producer for 22 years, Peter Lassally, told Malkhoff that Carson had a ban list (via Fox News). He claimed that “Burt Reynolds and Rich Little have both claimed to have seen a ‘hard copy’ with over thirty names on it,” though to his knowledge, a physical list never existed.
One of the names allegedly on the list was fellow late night host Leno, who made his Tonight Show debut in March 1977 and was once a regular on the talk show. The book claims that after the “audience laughs were so light” during his fifth appearance in February 1978, Carson “decided never to invite him back.” As Malkoff wrote:
Johnny just doesn’t like him. He doesn’t like his jokes. That’s not going to change… Once he doesn’t like someone, he doesn’t start liking them later.
Of course, Leno would eventually return to The Tonight Showas host for 22 combined years, from 1992 to 2009 and 2010 to 2014, so he wasn’t permanently banned from the talk show. Just blacklisted (allegedly) during a portion of Carson’s tenure.
He wouldn’t be the only one allegedly banned. Ninety-four year-old Star Trek favorite William Shatner wasn’t asked back after he apparently broke three Tonight Show rules during an appearance in 1983. This included speaking “monotonously for four minutes straight” without letting Carson butt in.
Second, he turned his back on his host to talk to Buddy Hackett. Third, he disregarded the Tonight rule that it was okay to mention your non-NBC TV series but not the network it aired on. Shatner mentioned the show, his series T. J. Hooker, and then also mentioned that it was on ABC. (The word was muted for air.)
Like Leno, Shatner actually did come back to the show, but only when there were guest hosts and Carson was not in the seat, which seemingly lends credence to this rumor.
Other allegedly banned guests included fellow former talk show host Ellen DeGeneres, which came after she reportedly made a joke after Carson told her not to. In addition, popular guest Carl Sagan, who appeared at least 24 times, eventually didn’t return after the scientist corrected Carson twice while he and Carson were discussing Halley’s comet. Finally, SNL star Dana Carvey, was allegedly “permanently banned” from appearing as a guest after he parodied the talk show in a sketch. (I guess he was not turtle-y enough for the Tonight Show‘s turtle club.)
Orson Welles, Jerry Lewis, and Steve Allen were also allegedly on Carson’s banned list for various reasons. None of this is confirmed officially, of course, though the information around each of the various celebrities and their final appearances is pretty specific.
Even if the banned list is true, Carson was still a respected talk show host, and he certainly seemed to know who was and was not worthy of his own time, though this whole thing does make me wonder if a list like that exists for other talk shows.
